Tiger Tank armor question

Hi
I have a question regarding the effectiveness of the Tiger Tanks armor. It seems to me that the t-34's are able to knock them out at longer ranges than in real life. I think it was on Great War. Series 5 - Kursk that they reported having to be like 500m or so to do any damage to the Tigers side armor, while the tiger could pierce the frontal armor of a t34-76 at 2km. can it be set to simulate this in game?
And on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I they say "On 7 July 1943, a single Tiger tank commanded by SS-Oberscharführer Franz Staudegger from the 2nd Platoon, 13th Panzer Company, 1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler engaged a group of about 50 T-34s around Psyolknee (the southern sector of the German salient in the Battle of Kursk). Staudegger used all his ammunition and claimed the destruction of 22 Soviet tanks, while the rest retreated. For this, he was awarded the Knight's Cross."
On the 2nd singleplayer mission i wasn't keeping up with the rest of the tanks (goofing around hehe)and by the time I caught up, the other tiger and one of the smaller tanks was burning by a still seemingly undamaged t-34, weren't 88mm rounds almost guaranteed a penetrating kill at very close ranges?


edit - the part talking about the armor and penetration in the kursk battle is on you tube Great War. Series 5 - Kursk arc. part 3 of 5 at 4:40

Which game are you talkingabout dude?

and which vehicle

a 34 76 would not be able to penetrate the frontal arc on a Tiger a over 500m where as a 34 85 would be able to. With regards to can this be simulated in a game to a point yes it can but the pentration model in most tank sims are a very simpified model based on hit points simulating armour thickness and a randomiser linked to strike angle (ie did it bounceoff). But these are only very simplified versions of the real thing.

The game I'm talking about is WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger, with the T34 vs Tiger patchTvsT_v_1 and MMP5 on that. The vehicle I use is the Tiger 1. right now I'm doing singleplayer missions to get used to it, so far this thing is really fun, it's just that I noticed the tiger wasn't living up to it's historical reputation or perhaps it's just my inexperience at this game

That's because it is a game ... it's a simulation yes ... but a game

if the Tiger had his real power in this game - T34 users will have no fun

The 85 mm gun used by the soviets in 1944 could penterate at 0°

117mm at 100m,
117mm at 500m
95mm at 1000m
80mm at 1500m
65mm at 2000m

standard AP BR365K with muzzle velocity of 792m/s

source http://www.friweb.hu/gva/weapons/soviet_guns7.html

Tigers armour was as follows for both H-E variants

Face was 100mm at 10°
Mantle was cast at 100mm at 0°
Side/rear was 80mm at 0°
Top was 25mm

source http://www.friweb.hu/gva/weapons/german_turret8.html

as you can see....very capable of taking out a Tiger 1, although it was the quality of rounds that made the difference

602RAF_Puff wrote:The 85 mm gun used by the soviets in 1944 could penterate at 0°

117mm at 100m,
117mm at 500m
95mm at 1000m
80mm at 1500m
65mm at 2000m

standard AP BR365K with muzzle velocity of 792m/s

source http://www.friweb.hu/gva/weapons/soviet_guns7.html

Tigers armour was as follows for both H-E variants

Face was 100mm at 10°
Mantle was cast at 100mm at 0°
Side/rear was 80mm at 0°
Top was 25mm

source http://www.friweb.hu/gva/weapons/german_turret8.html

as you can see....very capable of taking out a Tiger 1, although it was the quality of rounds that made the difference

see this page http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/main.html

Thanks for the info guys, very interesting stuff looks like i need to practice lots more, I keep getting owned on the 2nd mission. the other tanks in my group act like sacrifices leaving me all alone against some very angry soviets.

Actually the Tiger mantlet was a large casting that varied greatly in thickness. There are sectional drawings showing relative thickness.

I understand the thinnest sections were 92mm, with many areas between 120-150mm and even some closer to 200mm. Much of the area of mantlet was IN ADDITION to the 100mm of the front of the turret itself. Most knowledgable commentators tend to come up with an average for the frontal turret armour of between 120-130mm, some higher. Most Tiger crews knew that a turret front penetration was very unlikely. The crews were trained to have the front hull of the tank on an angle to the target, say 30 deg, rather than straight on, or better still hull down. As the turret would be straight on, this meant overall frontal protection was more equal.

The Panther has a similar armour arrangement and is effectively thicker than the mantlet thickness alone.

Cheers
BPNZ